USA Sangha see all of uphold our precepts from all the traditions
Peace in every step, trust in precepts, certainty in mind helps a Sangha endure. This is the only way to endure difficult times. There is no other way if you wish to remain a monk or nun with precepts. Otherwise do not wear our robes. Go back and stay in lay-life. How we endure is based upon the guidance of the Vinaya precepts we were given.
It is a parajika offense to support suicide by writing your support for it through images, posters, online posts, providing means of suicide the implements the knowledge on how to do it, the people to carry the instruments for your behalf to give to the person you want to kill. Arguing with a Sangha member in favor of the act of self-immolation in and out of Tibet is a parajika offense by written words or in speeches. Because you say it with your words… get it. Now GET OUT OF THOSE ROBES !!! I have argued with Tibetan Sangha particularly it’s the Westerners who really argue and I have enough. You westerners get a clue, you are not Tibetan even robes. Thus not supported by their system. Parajika offense is the most serious and you can never abandon it and call your self monks.
It is pointless to argue with anyone in the freetibet bandwagon, they are incapable of logic. Their leader promotes suicide, it is so shocking that this thinking comes from the West to effectively kill, probably end Tibetan Buddhism as it was. Every time I do engage them, by standing up for Vinaya and supporting life, they accuse me of being a Chinese govt supporter or a spy! I mean, really that no kind of logic. I am defending the right to life, not debating, I am standing up for the sake of the Tibetan Sangha not politics. Only those two things are my concerns in countering statements that are pro-suicide.
You cannot debate Buddhism people, I hate the way western people think their rambling emotional aggressive accusatory style in speech is debate when it is not. Buddhist debate is seriously controlled by the Sangha, and done in privacy of the Sangha sima. Buddhist debate is only done for proof of education and shows the level of understanding by the student, its specialized in style and has to be learned. It is not the stuff of forums or Facebook or comments field.
They don’t debate they just bitch. They don’t read, just use emotional statements, they don’t accept logic. If you counter with logic and reputable sources they just get emotional like teenagers do when they are overwhelmed. It is a rancid movement full of emotion, abuse, and does not favor life. When it started early one the movement was pure in intention but not effective.
Now the only effective thing is that the FreeTibet movement is doing is that they are good at marketing, selling posters, Buddhist goods, tshirts with burning monks images, and buttons and the like. They are emotional campaigners who promote officially suicide for political gain of a very, very few people. Most of them do not understand the history of Tibet, nor it’s warrior and warlord society, it was brutal, it was aggressive, repressive, and offered nothing to the whole of the country.
Westerners are not used to monks who commit violent acts, nor will they easily accept teachings from a tradition that is violent. It does not accord with their own understanding of Buddhism and the Sangha. Monks who abandon their Vinaya precepts and kill, fight, torture, enslave and many still do. I am not saying there are no Tibetan monks who uphold strictly the Vinaya for there are indeed many that do and some are highly attained and they do not touch politics at all. But those monks who abandoned their precepts they go back the monastery or commit the acts within the monastery in their robes thus they mock their preceptors, their elders and the saints, and those formerly held precepts and preach kindness and compassion with beautiful smiles on their faces.
If there are robed Sangha members joining with the FreeTibet movement with this purpose then upon the joining they have openly committed parajika offense. They are no longer considered monks by the rest of our global Vinaya Sangha.
Stephanie Brigden, director of the Free Tibet campaign group, said the spate of protests were “aimed at sending the next generation of China’s unelected regime a clear signal that Tibetans will continue to fight for their freedom”.
The protests have divided exiled Tibetans with some seeing them as a legitimate protest while others worry they contravene Buddhist beliefs in the sanctity of life.
This shows that they do not have a large amount of support to continue this horrific trend. Since 2011 they have promoted this one method as a means to force China to end political repression of Tibet and declare it independent.
Many gathered for a candle-lit prayer vigil in Dharamshala, home to about 10,000 exiled Tibetans, on Thursday in front of a large poster bearing the faces of those who have self-immolated.
last paragraph states:
Last week, UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay urged China to address Tibetans’ grievances saying she recognised their “intense sense of frustration and despair which has led them to resort to such extreme means”.
Here is a good short article on CNN.com and reasonable summary of why it is not working for those promoting suicide in Tibet.
So why does the self-immolation of one man accomplish so much, but the same gesture performed by so many others accomplishes nothing? Perhaps the question should be phrased differently, because a closer look at Bouazizi’s deed and the Tibetan cases reveals that it is something other than the sheer number of self-immolations that makes them a catalyst for change.
Tunisians could easily identify with Bouazizi’s extreme predicament. His actions spoke to the community’s shared frustration and despair. But the demands of Tibetan self-immolators are varied. Some want a “free Tibet,” as do all Tibetan exiles, but others only want freedom of religion, or political autonomy, or the opportunity to study in Tibetan as opposed to Chinese, or the return of the Dalai Lama to Tibet.
Self-immolations that prompt political change are extraordinary and rare events. The ancient Greeks had two different words for time: chronos for ordinary time and kairos for time of special quality — a particularly propitious time for which our “right time” is a rather weak translation. For self-immolations to be politically successful, they have to happen in kairos. Bouazizi, Đúc and Palach had many imitators, but none since have achieved so much.
That’s why the high number of self-immolations among Tibetans lately could be read as an implicit admission of failure. Even though the first self-immolation by a former Tibetan monk, Thupten Ngodup, on April 27, 1998, in New Delhi, had some public impact, it failed to cause the political commotion that Bouazizi triggered in the Arab world. Nor have any of the other Tibetan self-immolators since.
Ok, since after this the piece is after all an opinion, gets sloppy. Instead of saying more constructive and effective methods should be offered and participated by Tibetans the writer goes on to state that since the young teenagers who have only known occupied Tibet are doing it, they must be doing it for the attention. So therefore the most effective means is suicide because it keeps the free Tibet issue in the world’s mindset and eventually we will get tired of it and do something!?
when you are in flames your presence cannot be ignored anymore.
It is a shouting game of sorts, except that no party shouts. The Tibetans express themselves by burning; the Chinese authorities do the same by shooting Tibetans. Then, another monk or nun engages in self-expression and everything starts anew.
Palden Gyatso, a Tibetan monk who spent more than 30 years in Chinese prisons and labor camps, once said: “For those who use brute force, there is nothing more insulting than a victim’s refusal to acknowledge their power.”
Rarely has the desire for recognition been so desperate and moving.
That’s how the article ended. Approval granted, gee… I guess this mean that CNN supports suicide to get attention???!!! And yes it just an opinion piece.
This is not a healthy turn for Western minds, suicides are illegal in our country. In fact if the person survives one there is the inevitable court date to grant a mental facility authority over their life with repeated court appearances to monitor the person. All to protect their right to life which they threw away or keep throwing away. I think with our problems in our own country with a sharp increase of suicide among soldiers, depressed persons, emotional persons that CNN does not need to end an article showing the Tibetans want attention so they are now getting kids to kill themselves in Tibet because those kids got influenced because they were born in Tibet and thus are a product of the new Tibet. The lame line concludes… awwwh it’s so sad… but moving??? Huh? moving as in inspiring??? where? whom? I don’t think so!! It’s suicide for attention.
Then I cam across a bitter fight over a name change.., a name change! There are factions in Dharmasala right now being pushed by many Westerners to promote free speech… brentwerner is a vocal promoter. They changed it from TGIE tibetan government in exile to CTA central tibetan authority… And now life and limb are at risk, and those western supportors are confused… saye whtf? it’s free speech man… they openly criticize the repression, saying why now the Dalai Lama becomes the same s the Chinese govt, a Maoist.. well they said he stepping backward into what was Tibetan history of internal conflict….well he did study Mao they said and liked it way back in the 60s when the same fight erupted over people promoted to power.
Western ppl need to stay out of it, stop condescending to a foreign ex-pates who abandoned their country and took their wealth with them. Tibet has a long history of warlords among their people that was the reason they feel in the DL time, and in the past. Now it comes again in India. I wonder how long India will tolerate them.
Tibetan Buddhism is riddled with violence in Tibet and outside it. The attempted killing of Katrol Rinpoche by his own teacher and his repeated rapes is only the first time we hear from a victim directly. It has used the Tibetan warlord tactics fully, which means they abandon their precepts as monks to carry out politics. This is the norm for them. I now because what I read about them will not acknowledge their lineage as Vinaya. For they have admitted they openly abandon precepts to carry out gains in political power. I will not support Tibetan Buddhism as it is. It must reform to be considered Buddhist to begin to regain their ancient wealth in Buddhist history and contributions to it they must retreat back into the guidance of good monks and nuns. I am not saying there are not good monks and nuns who never abandon their precepts in Tibet for any reason. There certainly are. However, regarding Vinaya precepts being abandoned freely by the monks that hold them, this is certainly shameful and will bring the downfall of Tibetan Buddhism.
Many in the West are naive, especially those who jump on the freetibet movement after studying in Tibetan Center. Later they leave, and it’s the case now because of this warlord mentality over-reaching the guidance of the Triple Refuge and 5 Precepts they were given. As people West lose patience with the suicides they will withdraw their donations. Thus inhibiting the growth of authentic teachings being offered and hurt the potential for their continue practice in the West.
Right now, I see most of the intellectuals in the West are gone, leaving the sincere but new to the culture, the crazies, the emotionally weak, the depressed, the psychotic and those you really do not need in your movement. Right now I see anarchists joining your movement for the sheer joy of destruction, yes I’ve checked their FB walls, they care only for anarchy, not about Tibet, not about your causes or your conflicts.
- Tibetans greet China’s leaders with protest (kansascity.com)
- Free Tibet: teenage monks and woman in self-immolation protest for congress (independent.co.uk)
- Three Tibetan teenage monks, a young mother, and another Tibetan, set themselves on fire to protest against Chinese rule on the eve of the Communist Party’s 18th National Party Congress. (familysurvivalprotocol.com)
- Ahead of Party Congress, Five Self-Immolations in Tibet (theepochtimes.com)
- Tibetan teenager dies, protests in Dharamsala (vancouverdesi.com)
- Poland-China Tibetan Culture Week ends in Poland successfully – Xinhua (news.xinhuanet.com)
- Build Iowa’s First Nunnery (buddhafolk.wordpress.com)
- China Using Massive Surveillance Grid ‘Skynet’ To Stop Tibetan Self-Immolation (infiniteunknown.net)
- Video: Gangnam Style plus Tibetan independence plus bobblehead Xi Jinping (washingtonpost.com)
- Security increase reported after Tibet protests (straitstimes.com)